Retroactive SPS Proposal - Steem Power APR Revealed!

in steem •  2 years ago  (edited)

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Some of you may or may not know that by holding Steem Power you earn passive stakeholders' interest. I have known this but didn't know exactly how much, from old literature I guessed it to be around 1.8% per annum but, never was sure.

Even the media has no clue and as such, the native Steem Power interest rate was misrepresented as low as 1 % in a news article when compared with Tezos.

WAVES had the second-largest return, with a 4.8% annual yield for staking the token. The decentralized social media platform, Steem (STEEM), offered the lowest income returns, at 1%.

There was literally no easy way to check this, not even on existing block explorers, which was a particular bugbear of mine.

So I decided to do something about it, I consulted with Justin, the Head of Development at Steemit Inc, who indicated this would be a welcome feature but their team are already working hard on this hard fork and the upcoming SMT's and agreed they would seriously consider merging a suitable community Github pull request.

Knowing that such a feature would have a good chance of being merged, I created a Github issue and since I have been very impressed with developer @quochuy and his contributions to Condenser in the past and his involvment within BuildTeam, I asked if he wouldn't mind coding it up.

@quochuy being the awesome guy he is, did so and engaged with Justin for extra parameters, the whole process was fairly painless and @quochuy issued a pull request for the change, which to my delight was merged today by Steemit Inc,.

This is the result on the balances page:

We now know that the staking APR is 2.25%, I had no idea it was that much. This means the media can get our staking figures right and perhaps in a world of negative interest rates, powering up STEEM may be a cool option, when added to Steem Power leasing rates as high as 26.5% as is currently on order on the platform, signifies a 28.75% APR return possible on Steem today!

The Proposal

There was no talk of money for this proposal, @quochuy was so nice that he did this at no charge and it isn't just a simple text addition, it is, and I quote:

Computed based on dynamic global properties from the blockchain.

I thought this would be a great way to test the new Steem Proposals System and reward a developer who has already done something at the time of the SPS to encourage him to do more for the community in future.

While there is no central body keeping track of whether the proposal promises are being followed through, retroactive proposals like this one are totally risk-free for the community as the value has already been provided.

I asked @quochuy if he would be happy for me to submit a proposal with him as the recipient for $200 and he was grateful and even humbly said I should reduce it to $150.

I am really proud of the honour and belief in Steem that @quochuy has shown and am pleased that he is working with us at BuildTeam on the @ginabot project to bring you a brand new interface and features.

So Tl:Dr, the proposal is being created very simply on

PROTIP: You have to create your campaign post first and use its permalink to create the proposal, the permlink is the last part of the url after the author name, also known as a slug, in this case it was 'retroactive-sps-proposal-steem-power-apr-revealed'.

This is my first test so I did it at 70 SBD per day over three days because SBD is currently trading at 0.82 USD to make sure it is enough.

EDIT: Due to some ambiguity on the Steempeak proposals creation page, I selected 4 days in error because it seemed like the last day would not be included, hence the proposal will be for 4 days @ 70 SBD per day, but @quochuy deserves it, he has done many free community PR's in the past.

The Impact

Sometimes the little things can make the biggest impact, the weapon that fell Goliath was merely a stone; what if the catalyst to bullish STEEM price is something as simple as showing the world what our stakeholding interest rate is?


The value of the proposal isn't really isn't much and isn't about the money for us, it is more to prove a concept, that influencers and change-makers, who are not inherently developers, can still get their ideas realised by playing to their strengths and issue proposals on behalf of great developers and help get them approved to make Steem great together!

It also shows that in #newsteem, Steemit Inc, is a collaborative entity that wants to engage with community developers and merge reasonable pull requests.

#newsteem is a breath of fresh air, and is not at all like the old Steem.

Please go ahead and vote for this proposal via the following link: or on (on this one set more than 10 posts per page to see it.)

PROTIP: Ensure you enter your title and info correctly, once submitted can't be changed, only deleted and resubmitted, the original 10 SBD submission cost will be lost.

Also check out which updatess the vote value more regularly.

Ricardo Ferreira
BuildTeam CEO
Steem Consensus Witness

If you like what I do, vote for @thecryptodrive witness with this vote link:

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Thanks for taking time to post this proposal. I hope we will get more simple ideas like this that can help attract more attention to Steem, quick wins.

Thanks for your work, will vote the proposal. Much better than all the lawsuit nonsens we now see in the SPS.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Thank you

Pleasure working with you, we made a great team. I have some more ideas coming up, just need some time to formulate them.

There was literally no easy way to check this

It’s involved a bit of math, but the data’s out there and I updated the numbers just a few days ago:

It was 2.248% a few days ago, actually up since last spring:

Your figures also come to almost the exact same outcome, awesome. Now users can at least see it easily in the wallet.

We now know that the staking APR is 2.25%, I had no idea it was that much. This means the media can get our staking figures right and perhaps in a world of negative interest rates, powering up STEEM may be a cool option, when added to Steem Power leasing rates as high as 26.5% as is currently on order on the platform, signifies a 28.25% APR return possible on Steem today!

Just go with the average, it's healthier for Steem and everyone involved to be realistic about the APR than throw out some crazy numbers like we have done in the past (with payouts) and only damaged ourselves more.

Also the math there isn't right.

But yes, delegating Steem to successful projects should net in some really decent returns now especially with the increase in CR, it's time we market that to the world and when they realize that the price can't possibly drop much lower than what it is now they will notice how good of an opportunity it would be to invest in SP right now and hodl for a couple years. I know we cryptoheads are into the 20-50% pumps daily, etc, but regular people will be okay with 20% APR even if price is 15% lower in a few years.

Thanks for noticing the maths error, fixed to 28.75%. The 26.5% is more than average for the market today as that lease is for 300K SP, so was accurate to say that. My personal average is 20% and has been that way for a few months, I expect it will start creeping up now.

I agree investing and hodling SP is the way to go, I don't know of any other investment that can give 20% APR while still having upside exposure, sure the downside risk will be there as with anything.

Yeah it's annoying how Steem never gets the exposure it deservers, hopefully with the SPS we can start funding some real marketing until Steemit is doing better. Best part is that funding the marketing should make Steemit do better due to adrevenue, etc.

I think @ocdb was at around 17% APR pre-hf21, while giving 10% ROI to buyers, will be interesting to see what the numbers are now after and once downvotes are used more and quality at the same time increases of the bidders as they don't want to receive downvotes. Also curious how bid bots will be doing, I haven't heard much from most of them as to their changes so I'm guessing they just keeping things as is and taking as much rewards for themselves as they can while inactive delegators are inactive.

Going to be interesting times for sure, Steem will get there. It is only a matter of time, our repo is the 5th most active in the crypto space I believe.

mmm... I've been paying out about 20% APR equivalent for months now. Gross earnings will obviously be a bit higher. Now with tokens there is not even any need to hold SP and delegate - just buy the tokens.

That in itself, avoiding 14 weeks to undelegate and power-down should attract investors. I dunno, have heard many think it's still "too high" which is bizarre given the expectations of crypto prices.

I have also created some stable-tokens - more by accident than design but anything that is truly asset-based will be more stable, at least with respect to that underlying asset. Hence they are STEEM-stable but obviously not Dollar-stable.

I have also seen research papers on PoS returns and STEEM not even mentioned!

What makes you think it can't possible drop lower in price? Very strange reasoning? This is crypto. All cryptos are high risk. They can drop to zero.

Thank you for doing this and reporting to us! I had known about the interest, too, but had no clue how much it was, but it was awesome that you got an answer! Many thanks to @shadowspub for letting us know about this post in PYPT in her "TheRamble" discord server! 🙌

cool, like your lego :)

Yeah man, you inspired me!

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

come to newsteem and lets build some cool stuff together

Perhaps someone can give us an easy way to track these returns, where would they show up in our wallet???

They just increase your SP over time, it's continuously being added, best way is take note of what your SP is today and check what it is tomorrow, small accounts may not even see a difference but if you look at vests on you should see them increase. Remember to exclude the curation from the calculation.

At least now we have the APR, before we had absolutely nothing.

Thanks for the information, stats like this will help when investors look into Steem!👍

Posted using Partiko iOS

That's the idea! :)

the problem is, as with all PoS staking, that it's paid for by inflation. not really desirable in my opinion

It's only 2.25% so not really much. The leasing part that I mentioned above is from the current circulating supply, ie existing stake delegating to others in a P2P fashion.

Yeah but the entire inflation is around 8.6% yearly right now for STEEM with a lot of that going to a small handful of players. With Bitcoin and Litecoin under 4% inflation a lot of investors get worried about value erosion. Even Nano and IOTA have 0% inflation and they are flat lined in a long tail. Plus if Steemit Inc still owns 30% of the STEEM and they are programmatic selling all the time it worries investors.

I think if the price drops below $0.10 it could certainly be very tempting to chase after the premise of passive or semi passive income here.

I know for myself that when I do the math for how much influence someone would have at various Steem Power levels it always seems to solidify a solid return and mitigate the risks a person would really need to have 500,000 STEEM Power. A person has to have enough to have a large enough influence over the reward pool and account for possible value erosion and then compare that to what they think their investment would do if they just held Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero, EOS ....etc that have solidified their status.

In the above scenario of 28.75% return an inflation of 8.6% still leaves you with 20% nett which is great.

Remember that Steem is deflationary, the inflation drops by 0.5% each year.

Also STEEM is a limited circulation coin, a good deal of that inflation is locked up in STEEM POWER, as such has a virtual deflationary effect.

Agreed Steemit selling is an issue, I’m trying to appeal to them to institute dynamic selling, ie sell less in low demand low price cycles and make up the difference in upswing cycles and provide monthly reports in a steem post.

Yeah Dynamic selling would have made a lot more sense for Steemit Inc. Having them crush the price when prices are low and people are scared to buy certainly amplifies the financial devastation.

I just think people weigh out their investment options and Steem ends up falling lower in the stack. While the 20% net seems OK in general terms STEEM sliding from #3 on CoinMarketCap to #80+ was a real thing and putting it in competition with other projects it hasn't performed well price wise and retained its status up higher on the list.

Just because STEEM is at $0.15 doesn't mean it can't fall to $0.05 or $0.02. And that goes with any of these cryptos or stocks.

I think another issue is that a lot of people view STEEM as a way to earn more Bitcoin or more EOS or more Ethereum......etc

I don't hold Litecoin, Monero, or EOS to gain more Bitcoin. I hold them to have those coins.

I just think it is a comparison thing for a lot of investors and people aren't viewing STEEM as a great option for them in competition with putting their money in these other cryptos.

At some point the temptation to become powerful here will overcome certain investors whether that is at $0.10 or $0.05 or wherever. At $0.05 I would get pretty aggressive personally. A lot of people don't think the price could get there but I think there are a couple of reasons it could but only time will tell.

This crypto winter isn't over and we are all fighting for survival. The finish line could be more than two years away!!!

It has been at $0.06 before but bounced up to the ATH of $8. Anything is possible, I agree, there is no sure way of knowing where the price will go. I do have confidence based on the current performance of Steemit inc and the Steem community that Steem is a long term stable bet.

Yeah the Liquidity is good and on multiple exchanges. Some of these projects are dying..... getting delisted from exchanges and then have no trade volume. The situation is hard to come out of because then people just turn away from it and they have a hard time getting listed again because it costs so much to get on these exchanges.....etc.

There is still a lot of activity here and it becomes more about timing and being able to level up enough to have relatively high influence here.

People will go for it because even if we hit an equilibrium point in the long tail deep pockets will show up to multiply their crypto instead of being stuck in a long tail of another crypto that isn't earning anything.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Always wanted to say this...


Now everyone is a manager on STEEM =)

Nice, I love it :) bring out the rubber stamps.

I will support the proposal!

Awesome thanks my man!

곰돌이가 @jaydih님의 소중한 댓글에 시세변동을 감안하여 $0.014을 보팅해서 $0.026을 지켜드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 6339번 $70.227을 보팅해서 $81.502을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

Quality stuff.


Thank you for this post, I never new we earn 2.25% interest by staking Steem!!
Nice info and proposal.

I didn’t know exactly how much either, so is very cool to see. Thanks for your support.

Great job @quochuy!

However, I don't think that the submitted PR is worth 210 SBD. More around 30-50 SBD. I would have also preferred for him to create this post, so he could have been rewarded with the post-rewards, and since you didn't include him as beneficary this won't happen.

Now, I get why you've created this post: to shine a light on the SPS and that's cool. But my points above still stand.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Firstly, I appreciate both of you @therealwolf and @thecryptodrive for supporting my community work.

I'm not sure how to phrase all the following but here it goes.

I don't believe there is reason to go into argument here, I get the points of both of you and both are doing what each believe is right to do even if the action is different. Also, at this point in time SPS is a new born and we are all learning how to use it efficiently, we will make mistakes, there will be things we didn't think about because we are struggling with new tools that are yet to be perfect.

Being Steem Witness myself, the community development work I've been doing on the Condenser and Wallet apps was part of my plan as a way to give back to the community. Improving one of those two apps is beneficial for everyone. Even if I get nada from the work done (I still did get bit through @utopian-io posts), in the long run I'm still benefiting from it.

I appreciate @thecryptodrive's initiative to write this SPS post to support my work and show case a collaboration between Steemian and the use of this new system.

I partially agree with you @therealwolf on the fact that my PR might be worth less, however, there are some points I'd like to mention:

  • my work on this project wasn't just writing the code and submitting the PR, it was also liaising with all parties involved, putting my head around the numbers even if they seem easy for those who know them etc...
  • I believe @thecryptodrive also wanted to give me back a little bit more for the past community contribution I did for the Condenser and Wallet apps.
  • the value of a work or product is relative. When you are full, you wouldn't pay 50 cent for an apple, when you haven't eaten for days, you would probably pay $5 for one if there was nothing else. A change in an app might be a single line of code but it might bring more value to the app by fixing a critical bug or adding an important feature or information. The reason @thecryptodrive wanted this info is to correct a wrong information that other websites are spreading due to the lack of display of correct information on Steem main dApps, giving bad reputation to the platform. I quote the article he linked in the post above:

WAVES had the second-largest return, with a 4.8% annual yield for staking the token. The decentralized social media platform, Steem (STEEM), offered the lowest income returns, at 1%.

So, according to them staking STEEM would give you 4.8 times less return than WAVES while it's actually only 2.13 times less.

I think that between Witnesses, we should support one another and together build a better platform.

Again, thanks both for your support, I really hope to see more collaboration between all of us.

Then @thecryptodrive could have paid you for it. This feels like a misuse of the SPS so that he can be an early proposal creator.

I love also how he says you guys worked as a team when you did 99% of the work.

Dude did you not even read how much time I put into this, you are pushing the developer bias I’m talking about. It’s a totally fair showcase of how the SPS can be used, I have no problem having paid for it, however I wanted to test the SPS and this was the first thing that came to mind, I left some valuable user feedback in slack for the steempeak team to improve their ui which is useful as well, I’m trying to be a team player all round as well as push the investment value of Steem, but now all the public will see on this post is grumps like you complaining.

I mean on the SPS there is some $200 lawsuit thing for two years, another wanting $20 a day for a year which becomes $7300 overall but you guys choose to target a proposal of 200 bucks? For real?

Dude did you not even read how much time I put into this

Again, guess you don't realize how much time EVERYONE puts in. They don't all complain like you do. Guess BuildTeam isn't paying too well.

I mean on the SPS there is some $200 lawsuit thing for two years, another wanting $20 a day for a year which becomes $7300 overall but you guys choose to target a proposal of 200 bucks? For real?

Yes @thecryptodrive, both your proposals are shit. Thanks for helping others realize you can dislike multiple things at once since apparently that thought hadn't crossed your mind.

The refund proposal is stopping ALL other proposals right now, thankfully.

What both?

The only people with issues are you and wolf, it seems your nature to detract from progress.

Both the proposal you created and the one you tried to use to make some stupid point.

Just clearing up you didn’t think I submitted that one also. :)

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

In my opinion, someone writing a proposal for someone else should not set the beneficiary to the recipient of the proposal. Instead, they should either decline payout or set the maximum reward to 20 SBD to cover the proposal submit cost.

The reason I have this opinion is because many people were skeptical of the Steem.DAO being funded by 10% inflation. I believe it would be good form if we avoided overly impacting the Reward Pool by SPS announcements, if possible.

You wrote exactly what I was thinking: this is double dipping. Declining payouts, sending to @null, beneficiaries towards @steem.DAO would all be valid options to me for SPS Announcements, but collecting from both author rewards and Steem.DAO: not cool.

There are going to be exceptions. That's why I like the flexibility of being able to do whatever. For example, while setting beneficiaries towards steem.DAO would indeed avoid "double dipping," it is also problematic if we're trying to have low impact on the Reward Pool.

@soyrosa, @inertia I must respectfully disagree. I also think that this has turned into a bit of a pile-on witchhunt and the holistic picture is not being looked at. If you look at this objectively, it is not double dipping as there are two parties involved. Quochuy being the developer which was rightly proposed for funding by the dao and myself as the organisor and also the author, this post rewards me for my authorship.

I'm not the type who likes to write about my cat for example or take photos of the sunset, I like to write about Steem based initiatives, that is my passion of authorship and I feel it is my right to be able to post about such a topic as an author and non-recipient of the dao funding. If I choose to create a spotlight post highlighting the efforts of others that would have otherwise gone unseen and issing a dao proposal post and taking as much time to write it as someone who would write a poem or recount the events of their last weekend out, I should be allowed to do so as it is penmanship and totally falls within the realm of author rewards.

The only time it is a grey area is if I was getting from the SPS myself, but even then the SPS funding isn;t guaranteed as we have seen, likely Quochuy isn't even funded.

Also not i barely ever post, you can see by my blog history, it isn't about the funds, I honestly don't care about the $69 post more than half of which I promoted myself and also will be funding the developer directly with the 150 SBD he initially wanted if this proposal doesn't go through.

What does bother me quite deeply is I feel I did something pretty cool for Steem, we now have an APR display for Steem Power which makes for public discovery of this value now possible and could potentially be invaluable on so many levels, despite organising this, all I am getting is hate for this post (only by a handful of people granted), whichI feel is totally over the top and unfair.

testing ginabot mention @thecryptodrive

I can see your points and it was never my intention to 'hate' on you - just testing my own opinions on the SPS which was 'taken' from the pool that I personally dip my fingers in now and then. I do feel we need to protect it a bit and I would appreciate if SPS posts would decline payouts in most of the cases, but I can also see why you feel you 'need to' earn from the post whereas Q can earn from the SPS.

We'll see where the community lands on this issue as it's all very new :-)

Don't get me wrong, I don't need to earn from it, just nice to feel appreciated is all. I think this is all new and people are knee-jerk reacting to things without thinking about all sides. The proposal also didn't get funded so the author rewards was all that came out of it, I landed up giving Q some funds directly via transfer myself.

I'm rather concerned that the SPS is going to be a centralised thing in the hands of a few whales due to steem's inherent centralised stake, whether they have the time on inclination to scruitinise every proposal or even take a few min to vote on them to they can get over the return proposal mark will be interesting to see, otherwise we will have the same problem of alot of people feeling rejected and not wasting further time on Steem, much like how authors feel when they post and don't get noticed.

@therealwolf no ways 30-50 SBD, at 0.82 exchange rate that’s less than 30 bucks, it also took time to discuss it both with me and justin.

Remember devs aren’t always the type to issue posts, he was going to do this for free, I took it upon myself to create the proposal so he could get rewarded. I spent a bit of time on this myself dealing with all parties and putting this post together, I assumed the risk and put up the 10 SBD twice cause i did the typo on the first proposal and deleted, and I boosted the post with my own funds, so basically come out nett on the current post value with a deficit of maybe 4-5 hours of my time overall.

The entire proposal is to quochuy’s benefit. I think you are being overly critical of this, which is quite a positive showcase of the SPS.

I also think there is massive discrimination on Steem where project managers, ideas people etc are thought to be less valuable than the developers that did the work, without the idea and the drive to co-ordinate, such things wouldn’t have happened, I honestly don’t care about the rewards on this post but I take offense that you are in a way saying I don’t deserve them.

I take offense that you are in a way saying I don't deserve them

You don't deserve them

Maybe i should give them to you.

Or to the dev whose coattails you have attached yourself to this time.


But you guys say he is being overpaid so by giving the rewards from here would overpay more, loool.

You're upping the drama to new levels! Have a DRAMA.

To view or trade DRAMA go to

I was referring to SBD at ~1 USD. It's of course part of the discussions which price to take, as SBD is supposed to be pegged and it was around 95 cents for the longest time.

I get why you've done it this way and there is nothing wrong, I just would have preferred supporting him directly via post rewards and SPS.

I added a bit extra to my reply above, I’m a bit offended you don’t recognise my part in making this happen, why should I bother to coordinate things next time then if I’m just going to be criticised.

Also even at 1 USD -30SBD is 30 dollars, that’s like money for mowing the lawn and not suited for a PR on a wallet grade app.

@quochuy is the man who did the work and he should be in the spotlight, that's why I would have preferred a post by him, or at least one with him as a benefactor.

Also even at 1 USD -30SBD is 30 dollars, that’s like money for mowing the lawn and not suited for a PR on a wallet grade app.

I wrote 30-50 SBD. It could also be 80 SBD or 100 SBD. I didn't mean to cheap out. But also the difference could have easily come in if he would have created the post himself. A vote by blocktrades would chunk in most of it.

I’m a bit offended you don’t recognise my part in making this happen, why should I bother to coordinate things next time then if I’m just going to be criticised.

I'm sure you've been an asset in bringing this feature to live, but having a visible APR is not some voodoo. I talked about APR (esp stake inflation) more than enough in my posts and it's on me for not simply creating an issue. That it's here now is amazing, but don't act as if you're the primary reason - @quochuy is (and @vandeberg for explaining how the APR is being calculated)


Dude get real, no one would have even thought of it if I didn’t bring it up and co-ordinated it with all the right parties. It wasn’t even on anyones’ plans in the short term. I think quochuy and I made a great team making this happen, you are saying I should basically be considered an after thought.

Work that is not code doesn’t mean it is not work, which is exactly what I’m saying regarding only developers contributions being valued, which is what alot of people are concerned of regarding the SPS, that it will be dominated by developers and witnesses.

I easily spent 5 hours on this which I could have given to my kids instead, so feeling a bit under appreciated by you.

As I said Quochuy wasn’t going to do a proposal so the only way for him to be rewarded at all was for me to do the post for the proposal, and honestly I didn’t even think of beneficiary tbh, my main thought was the SPS and was fighting with the steempeak ui a bit.


Popcorn :)

Well played :)

You've got DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to

I easily spent 5 hours on this which I could have given to my kids instead, so feeling a bit under appreciated by you.

Many many many of us "easily spend hours" when we could be doing something else. I'm feeling a bit under appreciated by you for not realizing that.

Trying to shame people about your kids for you putting in a modicum of work is pathetic.

Truly pathetic.

Trying to shame people for getting things done and supporting a deserving developer is pathetic.

Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to

Just let @thecryptodrive post his obvious advertisement. He does so much work and those dumb devs think they deserve attention for just pushing buttons.

Dude move along. Obvious advertisement for sure, advert for Steem, for the SPS, for dlease, for quochuy to motivate him to do more in future, is all about ads now anyway :) just turn on your adblocker and move on.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Conveniently leaving out the ginabot shit and BuildTeam and vote me links.

Your post is an advertisement disguised as a way to get support for the developer that did the work. You are disingenuous and trying to pretend to be noble for the greater good of Steem.

Other people might kiss your ass in hopes of getting something but you have nothing to offer. Eventually people will quit letting "businessmen" take advantage of them and profit off them in the name of "support"

At least ads aren't pretending to be something they aren't.

This sounds like a good addition to Steem and Steemit.


Oh how I just still love Lego...

Posted using Partiko Android

@thecryptodrive, In my opinion this aspect is known by all but at the same time no one had clarity. Good to see that you've took it seriously and now we know what is the actual APR Percentage. And for sure @quochuy's work is really appreciable.

Keep up the good work and stay blessed.

Posted using Partiko Android

You have DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to

Very nice...

Well it doesn't look like the proposal will be accepted realistically (SPS is still ramping up and very little will get funded for the next month or two), but you can always give @quochuy the rewards from this post.

Good post

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