My plan

in steem-engine •  2 years ago  (edited)

It's with a heavy heart that I too am going to say goodbye to Steem. This place has been my home for the last 4 years, and I've spent orders of magnitude more time online with this community than I have with those in the terrestrial space. I've done my best to "Save Steem," but I clearly underestimated Justin and what behaviors he finds acceptable.

I didn't think that he would collude with exchanges to over turn SF 22.2. I was wrong.
I didn't think that he would vote in sock puppet witnesses. I was wrong.
I didn't think that he would vote in human puppet witnesses. I was wrong.
I didn't think that he would blacklist content on Steemit. I was wrong.
I didn't think that he would blacklist authors let alone witnesses on Steemit. I was wrong.

To those with foresight of how he'd behave I commend you.

I don't support any of his actions or choices. I think he's bulldozed Steem. I think of my daughters carefully crafting castles with blocks and time and decorations, and my clueless infant son walking through and crashing it all. Like my daughters who then remove the infant and continue building, that's where I've landed as well. So, I'll build on Hive and I'll put my primary focus towards building on Hive.

There's going to be many that think it's taken me too long to arrive at this conclusion. I move slow. It's in the name Aggroed. It takes a lot to disturb me from the path that I'm on. So, to those that would have preferred faster action it's just not my way. But after steadily trying to reason with Steemit I don't see a positive pathway forward that makes any sense. So, after a month of Justin's reckless choices I just can't see it working here.

I've removed nearly all of my delegations on Steem, and will begin powering down my personal accounts completely. This includes my delegation to Justin. I did it to symbolize that I'd be willing to help him figure out a path that would work, but have rescinded it. I think he's impossible to work with. Fortunately, the majority of the active community is already gathering on Hive. I'll be joining them and focusing on building it.

What about Steem-Engine?

There's a fair number of questions of how to handle this, and I don't think there's any one answer that will satisfy everyone. Where I've landed after watching for a few days is that the infrastructure on Hive will be sufficient to create a "hive-engine." Mostly due to what I see as technical and legal challenges to porting things over from steem-engine I've decided instead to more or less start from scratch on Hive.

To do this I'll leave steem-engine running like it is now. In addition to running steem-engine I'm going to make and operate a hive-engine.

I suspect the new hive-engine will be operational in early April.

If you own a token on steem-engine you will have token names reserved by the same account on Hive for some time. That said you won't actually own the token. We're not porting things over. We're starting from scratch on Hive. Of all the reasons to do it this way I'm leading with legal consequences of trying to operate a dex in the USA. The decision may not be the most popular one, but I'm not going to risk an Ether Delta.

If you own a token or tribe on steem-engine and want to stay on steem there's nothing you have to do.

If you own a token or tribe on steem-engine and want to move to hive one option is to continue having your token live on steem-engine, but have payouts work with hive instead of steem for the base token.

If you own a token or tribe on steem-engine and want to move entirely to hive your token name will be reserved, you can get the token and make it stakable and delegatable, airdrop it as you see fit to users, and alter things around with your existing tribe.

This stuff is a work in progress. If it all goes smoothly I suspect we'll be done in April, but May and June are possibilities if we run into difficulties.

I would like to see the front end for the dex allow at least two markets for trading - Hive and Steem. I could see an additional one for a USD backed stable coin as well since I have an approved federal money transmitter registration. That's a little down stream though. What exactly it'll look like is still up in the air, but I hope to have trading pairs available for custom tokens on Hive one way or the other in April.


After Hive-Engine exists it's easier to address Splinterlands. Splinterlands relies on trading of Dark Energy Crystals. There'd have to be a sensible way to trade the tokens on Hive if it was ever to move. After Hive-Engine is functional we can assess what else would be necessary to move Splinterlands as well and see if that makes sense for investors and card hodlers.

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For what it's worth, I completely understood your intentions for delegating to Justin. The 'ziplomat' in me would've done the same.

I know you got a lot of flack for doing so, and no appreciative response from Justin. I do think it's true that diplomats are rarely popular, as narrow-sighted people on both sides will almost always perceive their behaviors as some kind of betrayal. It's unfortunate, but common, I think.

I've also made my move to Hive, pulled my delegations (except for minnowsupport and the alliance) and initiated a power-down. I can't abide by censorship. Simple as that.

See you over there, old friend.

When I first came to Steem it was because I'd been kicked off of facebook for literally the 5th/6th time. I found a post by stellabelle. She said I could post on Steemit without fear of censorship. I've done so for four years. When the "flagship" app on Steem is hellbent on approved opinions only... just ridiculous. Literally every decision he's made is so disgusting to my soul.

So, while I believed the empty promises around governance for a while I just can't see this thing going anywhere positive. I'm sure plenty of people can make "I love the Sun" posts and get upvoted by steemit accounts for decent money for a while, but that's not a steem life for those unwilling to bend the knee. Honestly, it's not a life for the guys who will bend the knee either.

See you on the other side. Glad you made the move.




I can literally read the pain it took to arrive at this point for you @aggroed. Steem has been huge for you and it is obviously hard to let go.

That said, it is good to know when the deck is stacked against you and the only way to win is to not play the game.

Good luck in making the transition, I am sure it will be a lot of hard work, but worth it in the end.




How are ENG and EMFOUR going to work?

Are you going to make new "HIVE ENG" and "HIVE EMFOUR", or are current ones going over like STEEMp->HIVEp?

Justin betrayed what trust people put in him. I bet he's fuming that we took our ball to play elsewhere. Maybe he can get his Tron fans to adopt Steem, but it has lost a lot of what made it great already. Take your time with Steem Engine. It's an opportunity to make it better on Hive.







Congrats! You're a proud recipient of a hefty downvote from Overlord Sun!

I noticed! It's also off Feel like I've gone full circle. joined because I got censored and left on the same note.

You could have received no better validation...

I'll add this to your "I didn't think" list:

I didn't think he would use Steemit Inc's stake to upvote Return Proposal to the first place in SPS and cut off funding for all community driven Steem projects. I was wrong.

This one is big.

Wow, good catch! This is nothing short of complete autocratic control.




As well as downvoting on unwanted posts and adding big censorship lists

  ·  2 years ago Reveal Comment

i had hopes when Justin joined, even unvoted all the witnesses when softed forked him out.

guess it's his place now. Hi ho hi ho it's off to hive i go.

oh, and thanks for splinterlands - love the game see years of fun for Son and self

This is the absolute correct path. I don't need to tell you this, but given the capricious governance style he has shown, time is of the essence here. I expect to see forks in the very near future out of him to help mold steem in his image or facilitate his exit. In terms of splinterlands, I hope that snapshots are being taken frequently, as a lot of us have invested significant funds in the project and believe in its success no matter what blockchain it lives on. Moving it to a friendly one and not waiting for the hammer to drop is the best move. I look forward to buying some cards on the market in a few days with my newly liquefied steem. Cheers

Splinterlands doesn't have the same legal challenges re operating a dex. That business can operate much more flexibly, but there's a variety of tooling that needs to exist for it to move, and we can assess when it does all exist.

Thank you for the clarifications on the status of Steem-Engine, one of my favorite Steem-based projects, which pushed forward Steem into a multi-token ecosystem.

It's sad that Steemit continued pushing that SMT's would one day come out, without realizing their own community had already made them in the form of SCOT's.

I look forward to seeing you and Hive-Engine on Hive.

Hi there

I've been reading through many comments related to new hive chain and I've seen your comment too. Many users are being torn, however majority seem to be moving to new hive.

Are you fully moving there or will you stay on both chains? Just curious. I'm trying to figure out what to do myself.

It's a lot of effort to cross-post on both chains but I will try that for a bit. I will likely follow where more content is posted.

Big Thx for your reply. I think i will stick around on both chains for time being.

I also figured that you may find this post interesting and worth your time:

It's post published by good friend of mine and I'm helping him to promote their curation trail.

Justin Sun is essentially buying power and influence with his money.

The unfortunate thing about this whole situation is that if the witnesses just would have forked off the ninja-mined coins years ago it never would have come to this.

The first best time to fork off the ninja-mined coins is when it was discovered, the second best time was the day after that, the third best time was the day after that. The witnesses had many chances to deal with this ninja-mined stake, which ultimately led to the complete take over by hostile actors.

Let this be a lesson to those who didn't do the right thing to begin with, the naivety of most witnesses caused this to happen. Whether or not people think I am being too harsh, the end result was predictable. Exchanges powering up Steem was a valid attack vector that was talked about by the crypto community as far back as 2017 I have seen, probably sooner.

If the question is, will someone collude to take over anything, and there is power/money to be made, the answer is yes.

I personally like and still vote for a lot of the actual top Steemit witnesses despite this, because there isn't really a better option.

If you abandon steem-engine and strand those assets, it will be seen as a very bad thing by many. I hope you decide to keep both exchanges trading, but if you do indeed plan to shut down steem-engine then please give people plenty of notice to deal with it.

The way this reads you plan on keeping steem-engine running, so if that changes and we need to react, then the decent thing to do would give us plenty of notice.

read again, it clearly states it'll remain open.

I did read what you wrote and saw you were going to enable the tribes to move to hive and you were reserving the names etc... My point is, for our guild tokens on Steem-engine we are perfectly fine to keep them on Steem-engine. We don't stake our tokens and they simply represent the ownership of our assets. There would be no reason for us to move to hive-engine unless you plan on closing steem-engine.

So if you plan on abandoning steem-engine and all the tokens listed on that exchange, then you should give us a heads up and plenty of notice.

I think its awesome that you are going to develop hive-engine... and I think it will be even more awesome if hive-engine and steem-engine can trade HIVE/STEEM and HIVE/DEC pairs. So I'm not being negative, I'm letting you know that a lot of people have assets on Steem-engine and keeping it functioning or giving us plenty of time (not 3 days) to make decisions would be appreciated.

"To do this I'll leave steem-engine running like it is now. In addition to running steem-engine I'm going to make and operate a hive-engine."

I see that "That said you won't actually own the token. We're not porting things over."
but would like to ask to know for sure about ENG token.
Can/could we use ENG token aquired on Steem-Engine to create a token/make it stakable, delegatable etc. on Hive-Engine?
In other words, will the ENG be the same token on Hive-Engine as it was on Steem-Engine?
thanks in advance for the clarifications, if any.
thanks for your work for steem/hive

Good call on rebuilding steem-engine instead of porting it as is

STEEM-ENGINE has been broken for two days for me!

working just fine for me...

Same here, used it yesterday with no problems.

  ·  2 years ago Reveal Comment

full respect to you and how you have handled this whole situation,. ive listened to so much of what you have said and agree with most of your sentiments.. WHO knows how this would have panned out had we all been a little less aggressive and a touch more diplomatic


Thanks for what you did! I appreciate all you did for Steem.

I don't think I can take a round 2. But still much respect and best wishes.

  ·  2 years ago Reveal Comment

The @commentcoin and ALU token will be on the Hive-Engine. But I have a question.

Did we need to pay the fee for creating it again???

Well I'd like to say thank you for creating such an amazing DEX and I will happily create my tokens on HIVE ENGINE.

In terms of NFTs, will they also be available at launch?

I hope you would have a big success with hive-engine available next month.

I may not of agreed with some of stances you and some others have taken up to this point in reagrds to the current fiasco that is taking place but there's no denying you did allot for STEEM. There's also no denying your pasion for this place. This decision must not of come easy for you.

At the very least I hope you reconsider your decision with Steem-Engine, it has many supporters. No need to abandon a perfectly good succesful exchange because STEEM went in a different direction then you wanted.

I hope this virtual !BEER cheers you up a little.

steem-engine isn't going anywhere! I'll keep developing features of the site.

Hello @aggroed, I understand how you feel...
But even if you keep on developing steem-engine it's obvious that steem-engine will end as a niche. Let's have a look at the Hive blockchain. Due to the HF we receive HIVE for our STEEM - so even if Steem (and STEEM) will be ruined at the end, we haven't lost anything.

But what about the (Steem-)ENG? I think it would be fair to 'HF' them too. I have believed in your creativity, skills and a bright future of Steem-Engine - the reason why I'm holding more than 17500 ENG. Everybody who has bought ENG (or EM, EMFOUR) not only trusted steem-engine but also trusted YOU. I really think it would be fair to everybody if you decide to 'HF' the native Steem-ENG token at least and offer the same amount of Hive-ENG token.

Concerning the SCOTs, the 'responsibility' maybe is with the tribe-owners - but ENG is your 'responsibility'. Concerning ENG - even if steem-engine will remain - it easily could feel a bit like have been ripped off. And I know that's certainly not your intention. That's why we support your plans and you as our witness.
So I really think it would be fair to credit the same amount of Hive-ENG, -EM and -EMFOUR on our upcoming Hive-Engine for the Steem-ENG, -EM and -EMFOUR we already own on Steem-Engine.
Thanks! @retinox

Thanks for the clarifying, I intitially thought you were just going to leave as is but keep it running.

I look forward to the continue use of Steem-Engine and also supporting your "hive-engine" once created.

Bravo!!!! I certainly understand every bit of what you've been doing. You patiently wait to see where things are going before taking a wise decision. However, I would like you to think and permutate with hive before settling up on the new blockchain. If there's gonna be a provision for a smart contract token, it must conform with the system you are trying to set up so please put that into consideration. Best of luck.

If SMTs where alive and well on Hive, what would that do to your plans?

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

SMT is a totally different animal, a different layer of operation, ain't it?

a token is a token, i do not see what the difference is.

Maybe SMT's are not defined broadly enough.
And if so, then we need to get back to the drawing board.

As i see things, Dark Energy Crystals should drop in, plug and play SMTs

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

I've never been a fan of SMTs in first place because it means second layer coins and internal exchange on the bases of a Blockchain already staked with 3 types of Tokens SBD/STEEM/SP.

You utilize a BC with 3 tokens to bear an internal exchange with even more tokens... Yeah, that sounds as stupid as it is. The Steem-Engine, at least, gives these second layer Tokens a real abstraction in technology and transportation. Beyond the fact, that fusing 'Bank' and 'Exchange' is a combination with way too much potential of abuse. My guess is, that SMTs will never reach HIVE, but we'll see, we'll see. 100% not in the way STEEMit has intended them to be.

You wanna draw a different picture to me?

If what you are saying is true, it looks like steemit was trying to make dumb tokens... which is probably why they were taking so long.

Then it looks like its back to the drawing boards.
Maybe i can give some input this time.

But, my original statement stands, Dark Crystal Energy should be drop in, plug and play (hive block-chain) tokens




not three tokens... SP is STEEM powered up (Staked) .. you need to power it down (unstake) to STEEM in order to do any trading.

It's STEEM and SBD (Steem Backed Dollar)

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

In my opinion not and a lot of devs agree, it's not the same coin. Just because of an automated 1:1 exchange mechanism, it doesn't make it the same. The delegation is different, it is priced differently - especially to get it leased or a loan, the transfer is different, the utility is different, the name is different. Technically you create SP by staking STEEM and the other way around. We call it then 'STEEM POWER' and not 'STAKED STEEM' because it is SP and not staked STEEM, it rather gets created by staking STEEM.

What you do is, you just say, ok I can exchange 1 STEEM to 1 STEEMPOWER on Chain / automated and they sound pretty much the same, so it must be the same but that doesn't make a lot of sense xE ?? Do you get any of this? The STEEM Blocchain is actually one small HardFork away from not being able to stake/unstake in the original way anymore - or at least do that in a matter of hours. That would be the smallest technical change. But why even bother? Because they are not the same. That is why.

Did you know that the original unstake time? It was 2 years.

Hive on :))

the only way you're moving SP around is via delegation .. STEEM trades on the exchanges and is a token. No wonder people find the platform difficult to understand when people make up shit to fit their mindset

Yes and you can buy delegation separately, the price was ~14% of the equivalent STEEM value per Month of delegation.


I feel for the loss you had as a builder.
I would believe the "newland" is protected from such hardships.

Let's not focus on the two last months of problems and think about the years before and most importantly, the years forward.

If Steem was a child you lived with, then maybe Hive would be its young adult version, deprived of its first naiveness, but full of energy and looking for what is next in it's life!

I'm happy you move to HIVE man, Take your time, we will wait for you man.

I'm happy you move
To HIVE man, Take your time, we
Will wait for you man.

                 - toofasteddie

I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

hey @haikubot , gogo

Much luv Aggroever I'll see you there

Thanks for taking us all along,...

I am waiting your road map.
Thank for message.

Please add Hive token on steem-engine.

Hey Aggy, I’m sure it must have been a very difficult decision for you.
Thanks for all you’ve done for Steem. I appreciate all your efforts in developing SL and SE.
Btw, any plans to list Hive and HBD on Steem-engine in the meantime?

Good choice.

Uggg.. I totally get it, but it sucks that I still own 31 PALMM miners that I bought for 100 steem each. But to be fair, those have lost most of their value already anyway.

It's all worth it for a fresh start on Hive.

After the absolutely shit service I received from your company you expect me to buy my coin twice? You're insane.

I appreciate the clarification and explanation @aggroed, and this must have been a really hard decision to make, after so much blood, sweat and tears. Thank you for all you've done!

I staked quite a few SCOT tribe tokens, so it had been on my mind what would happen to them, and whether they would remain accessible, after HIVE launched. If I am reading your post correctly, it sounds like (for someone who's only a token holder) tokens will be fungible... e.g. a PAL token earned via Steem is the same as a PAL token earned via Hive? Or maybe I am misunderstanding.

Either way, I look forward to the new Hive-Engine!


It's nice to see you're making your own choice, and while it's hard it's okay to let things go. Good luck and godspeed

Today will be a great day. Getting started with your article was a great solution. Now I can safely say that HIVE has a great future !!!

Сегодня будет отличный день. Начать ень с Вашей статьи было отличным решением. Теперь я могу смело говорить, что у HIVE большое будущее!!!

Thanks for the update. What a hard decision but good to have some certainty about the future. Best wishes. And ... Hive it up!

If I can't have it, no-one can!

This outcome is definitely not in the best interests for anybody including your "renegade hive community".

You go ahead and start again in your safe place but make sure you know you have let users down. What a bloody mess!

New chain, new life, new challenges.

For a very long time I was hoping there will be some kind of agreement. Sadly all his actions were proving otherwise.
Sad to see Steem go this way. Hope all goes well for you.

Guess @justinsunsteemit took it personally that you undelegated to him ... he flagged the post with a 65 million sp vote. hahaha won't even show this post without a click because of emperor Justin.


I'm powering down my steem now, I feel by the time it's all powered down, it won't be worth much and Hive will have gone up a lot by then. Hopefully I have some time to move most of my funds over before Hive's price goes way up. I think an interesting approach for migration would be to shut the exchange for a particular token and just airdrop to corresponding users. The only downside would be if there was new steem users holding the tokens.

HIVE Could Face a Massive Class Action Lawsuit for Intellectual Property Theft


A group of rogue members of the Steem blockchain community have unilaterally copied the intellectual property of millions of content creators without even the slightest decency to even attempt to seek their consent...

Interesting, can you elaborate on what you mean?